Very interesting analysis. However, the socialism in Romania, for example, was a fail. I think that China is special due to its long history experience , culture and lots of amazing personalities who had not only love for the country and its people but also a vision and the desire to change and develop the country and raise life quality..I cannot see any country in the western world to be able to take its path or support its people to work hard.
There is simply no love and desire for a reform to strengthen a sick society whose education fell under mediocrity in the US. Only speeches and make up.
The system is simply corrupt, bureaucratic and the government regulates things what are not its business, like where exactly a woman should give birth to a baby or mandate medical procedures based on the investment their members have made. The two parties and many members of Congres and Senate are a joke. And American people at this point do not really have much choice. Most are low paid and over taxed, in debts, sick and malnourished due to the cheap , junk food. I think that is way more than a class issue.
I share a similar story. Leaving China wasn't my choice but buy did I spend the subsequent 20 years disowning anything Chinese about myself. It didn't help that my parents hid behind Chinese culture and Confucianism to rationalize their abuse. As an adult though, I very much see that my parents disowned their own Chineseness far more than I ever could. This manifested itself as an embrace of American social conservatism, starting with it's racism and xenophobia, the typical "illegal aliens are criminals and black people commit the most violent crimes" bullshit. Ironically, my mom and I were illegal aliens for a few years.
I spent a time being conservative as well, taking the patriotism AKA nationalism angle, preferring rhetoric that nowadays would wind up on r/USDefaultism or r/ShitAmericansSay. Over time though I became more pragmatic. Based on nothing but data and the lived experiences of my wife and me, I eventually came to the conclusion that much of society's ills can be traced back to poverty. While my parents came here to claw themselves out of poverty and embrace American opportunity (they literally threatened to send me back to a shithole China as punishment whenever I acted up), I graduated college in a job market that hadn't recovered from the 2008 recession, watched my sister do the same 10 years later, and witnessed cost of living rise faster than wages. Thus began my so-called radicalization into socialism. After 2016 and 2024, I also started embracing my Chinese side. Again, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, China's comparatively heavy-handed and authoritarian approach to progress yielded results that are very hard to argue with, and they did it without mandating and exploitative work culture or establishing a global hegemony.
Contrast China's progress with India's progress and you see a tale of two systems. China lifted its populace out of poverty by rolling up its sleeves and spending all the money it made from manufacturing on public projects. India reduced its poverty from 25% to 5% by adjusting the criteria for poverty. China has a powerful government with a one-party monopoly on power, but socially is that same government that to an extent forces egalitarianism by doing things like taxing the rich, criminalizing lobbying, and bullying arrogant billionaires. India's freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom of religion led to a culturally enforced social hierarchy via the caste system, journalism that competes on pure sensationalism, and a sharp rise in Hindu nationalism that fueled Modi's Ascension. I'm sure you can see the parallels in the US as well.
All this has led me to take a more Hobbesian view of politics, which is more compatible with authoritarian socialism or post-Nazi Germany's comparatively authoritarian fortified democracy than liberal democracy. While I still very much advocate for Social Justice and other woke things, my focus has shifted from race to class. It doesn't help anyone to write off MAGA idiots as just racists and idiots. Their poverty drove them to do the unfortunately human thing of blaming external factors like other races and immigrants. That same poverty also cut off their access to education that could have taught them to think more critically. In that sense, they became victims of American freedom, and now stand to benefit from a more paternalistic State that by definition is the authoritarian socialism that the Cold War dismantled. This authoritarian State could have criminalized lobbying by special interest groups and billionaires, suppressed their propaganda, regulated religion to prevent the rise of religious extremism, and enforced censorship of hate speech and misinformation in favor of mandating and funding public education. Instead, we're watching our freedoms get dismantled by billionaires, lobbyists, and religious extremists, who benefited from and then abused those very freedoms to consolidate wealth and power. To quote Star Wars democracy dies with thunderous applause. It happened with Hitler, it happened with Orban, now it's happening with Trump. And while I'm no fan of Xi or totalitarianism, he is supported by a comparatively authoritarian technocratic system that effectively makes it illegal to be a rich powerful totalitarian asshole dumbass. That same system also prevents the populace from spiraling into uninformed and misinformed idiots.
From my perspective, just because it's private citizens and private companies committing atrocities, it doesn't make them any less atrocious. As a matter of fact, it's arguably worse because the government has plausible deniability, and restricted its own ability to prosecute and punish such atrocities. An authoritarian government becomes more of a devil you know. Chinese understand this extremely well. They had to deal with devil you know versus devil you don't know multiple times across their millennia of history, as well as multiple times in a single century, which is why even in longitudinal anonymized studies, approval for the one-party system remains high across all demographics. At this point I'm interpreting those numbers less as self-censorship and brainwashing, and more as legitimate support for a Hobbesian social contract approach to a a Confucian relationship between people and government. Cynically, even the most radical dissidents prefer that their enemy has an obvious uniform. And this gets to the root of the post: We need to be fighting a class war, not a culture war.
One of the reasons for people like me living overseas in North America since the age of 19 is that it gave us a different perspective. I’m really glad to see many American-born Chinese and Canadian-born Chinese who came to North America at a young age now starting to embrace their heritage. It’s fine to be proud of whichever passport you hold, but it’s just as important to be proud of your heritage, because at the end of the day, that is your root. I agree with many of your points here, and I truly appreciate you commenting like this. Thank you Sam
I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Though I’m far from being an expert, I do consider myself a socialist. But I’m trying to untangle in my mind the bullshit I’ve heard and read about China my whole life. From your perspective, authoritarianism seems totally logical under socialism. That’s something I’d never considered. You’ve given me a lot to think about. What would you and @neilzhu say about the exploitation of Chinese workers in sweatshops I’ve heard about for so long? And supposedly there’s a rural China that’s poorer than any American can imagine. And what about the censorship of ideas from the outside world? I genuinely don’t know what to think anymore and am eager to learn a different perspective.
First of all, thank you for reading and watching our articles and videos. The Chinese system runs on what’s called socialism with Chinese characteristics, which basically means whatever works for China works for China, and it must benefit the people. The core principle of the Communist Party is to serve the people. Since 1949, that slogan has always been at the center, and people expect the Party to honor it.
Secondly, about the sweatshop issue: today, China has very strict labor laws, and sweatshops are not allowed. Child labor is also strictly forbidden. If anyone hires child workers, the company and its leaders are finished, jail time, no question. What people call “sweatshops” mostly refers to things that happened 20, 30, even 40 years ago, when rural adults left for the cities for works and some kids were left behind. A few people took advantage of them. But that was a brief, temporary phenomenon. Today, all of that has been eliminated. Think about it, why would modern China need child labor or cheap, unsafe labor? It’s not efficient. Many factories now are automated, and the idea of “sweatshops” is long gone. What still pops up in Western media are isolated cases, blown out of proportion.
As for censorship, I see it more as a language barrier. Many of you probably haven’t spent time on Chinese internet platforms. On Weibo and other networks, people criticize the government constantly. There are always different viewpoints and channels to solve problems. The Chinese mindset is more programmatic: if you have a problem with the government, you find the right channel and resolve it, instead of just endlessly ranting online.
Regarding the “Great Firewall,” many Chinese people use VPNs, and through them people access Twitter (now X), YouTube, and even here. So outside information is not as blocked as people imagine. In fact, Chinese internet has been slowly opening up more and more, and I personally hope it continues, because if it does, I’ll have an even bigger audience here.
I hope this clears up some of your questions. If you’d like to continue the discussion, feel free to drop a comment.
Thanks so much. This is extremely helpful to know. Since I started watching your videos and reading your work, a lot of the propaganda I'd been fed in the US has quickly dissolved, and I see it for what it is.
Frankly, I'm so tired of the misinformation that has spread like wildfire here in the US in the last 10 years. My views on freedom of speech are evolving and changing because when algorithms and corporations make wannabe dictators, Christian nationalists, pseudoscientists, and billionaires the loudest voices, free speech is essentially meaningless in this country.
I'll take a different angle that can be summarized as this: despite strict laws, enforcement is difficult or ignored. Pragmatically, oftentimes enforcement is just not worth it.
China has a list of government approved VPNs that provide access to the blocked apps like Meta and Google, but even when private citizens use unapproved VPNs, nobody reports it, and authorities turn a blind eye. It's just not feasible to enforce in this case. Even the best AI of today cannot monitor and scrutinize every data packet that is transmitted. Foreigners are also allowed to use basically any VPN in China, much to the open consternation of Chinese (you should see what they used to say about Eileen Gu whenever she made an Instagram post from China).
The sweatshop issue is a bit fuzzy. Look up any video about Shein Village and even Chinese will openly discuss bad labor practices and a complex network of subcontractors very much designed to cover the asses of management and optimize raw output at the expense of workers' rights, that are then amplified by involution culture. In this case though, Chinese still see heavy-handed government intervention and socialism as the most viable solution. Hell, even Tiananmen Square (8964) was a demand for e return to a more pure form of socialism. While officially it was a violent disruption of public order, the spirit is not lost among party officials, and I'm moderately confident that those very same dissidents will also be retconned as National Martyrs in the future.
On the flip side, involution culture is also what keeps children away from working. The competitiveness of the college entrance exam incentivizes parents to keep their children in schools and supplemental classes as much as possible. Therefore, child labor is not only extremely illegal and morally repugnant but also pragmatically a massive waste of time. This culture can be even more severe in poor rural China because the college entrance exam is seen as the only way out of poverty.
It's also important to note though that sometimes the lack of proper labor practices is also perpetuated by the workers themselves. One of the best examples that I can provide is at welding shops, where older workers often refuse the inconvenience of wearing protective gear, and smoke cigarettes on the job next to tanks of combustible material. They won't listen to management, especially if management is younger, and in general, they're a bunch of stubborn assholes stuck in their ways.
As for censorship, it's something that Chinese openly acknowledge, and probably highlights one of the biggest polarities between Chinese and Western values. After so much violence perpetrated by both foreign and domestic forces, as well as the carnivorous capitalism of the Deng era, most Chinese value the safety to consistently go home to see their families more than the freedom to call Xi Jinping Winnie the Pooh. As long as you don't criticize party officials or the party itself, criticizing policy is fair game. American libertarian dumbshits also love to misquote Ben Franklin. In all official biographies he never actually said "those wishing to trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security". Aka they are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps the most colloquial way I can capture the Chinese sentiment around Freedom and security is a Chinese user who once told me that she would rather live in a country where she is more afraid of ghosts than people. And yes, this also accounts for the man vs bear discussion.
While we interpret 80% Chinese approval of the government as brainwashing and self-censorship, it's hard to argue with the rapid material gains, social stability, and social mobilization that this so-called brainwashing has provided. America had to go to war multiple times for women and minorities to join the workforce en masse. China on the other hand, forcefully demands it of them 🙃 And speaking of women, China has much better maternity leave laws than we do, though the unintended consequence is gender discrimination in hiring then women reacting to that by electing not to have kids.
In addition to the criticism on social media that Neil mentioned, many cities have official civic engagement apps, which according to most Chinese I talk to, are rife with extremely creative, vicious, and entertaining criticisms. I believe them, because Chinese culture has had five millennia to evolve the art of humulation. Considering the sheer population of Chinese cities, Mayors wield a massive amount of influence and power. It's also open season for them on the city apps. But even unofficially Chinese still openly gripe about the government. This happens more in spoken conversation than on any written platforms. Again pragmatically, censoring these conversations is just not worth it.
As for foreign sources getting censored, it is understandably reflexive. After China's century of humiliation, repeated incursions and exploitation by foreign powers (including after joining the WTO), as well as CIA-funded propaganda and misinformation machines cosplaying as NGOs, it's no surprise that China wants to build itself on its own terms. Just imagine a team of social workers and self-described life coaches constantly breathing down your neck and giving you unsolicited advice they read in a textbook and even financially and corporally punishing you while making no real effort to understand where you came from. Now amplify this to 1.4 billion people many of whom are still-living survivors. Americans already have a hard time trusting authoritative sources. China's resistance and censorship against foreign influence is not even a toddler tantrum compared to how the US would have reacted where the circumstances reversed. And if this seems like an overcorrection, we literally shot up the British military over taxes 😂
This is extremely helpful! I appreciate you and Neil so much. Americans need to learn this stuff. Are there media sources or books or anything else either of you could recommend I read about Chinese history, society, and/or politics - something not tainted by Western propaganda? If you can think of a couple off the top of your head, I would greatly appreciate it.
Iris Chang (RIP) is a good start. If you really want to throw yourself into the deep end, the Analects of Confucius. I also listen to the Sinica podcast, available on your platform of choice, including Substack. While they are hosted by pro-democratic elements, their content is usually academically rigorous and a good secondary source to cite, especially if you're persuading or debating a China skeptic because they are completely independent from any government, as are their guests.
Now get yourself ready. I'm about to help you flood your algorithm.
On Western platforms there are a few Chinese and non-chinese creators that I follow. Search both they're short form and their long form content:
Little Chinese everywhere
Mike okay
Blondie in China
Aiden Qiu
Dr Candise Lin
Explore with Mia
Chinese with Jessie
Max Chernov
Cyrus Janssen
Somenuance
That Evan guy
Pawn man
Otwd
1M views
秋秋Lareina
Katherine's journey to the east
Aleese Lightyear
Marissa in China
Yuna Ou
Ychina
Sam pepper (He's got a bad rap for being a public nuisance but his China content is good)
For some more light-hearted content:
Trump by Ryan or Chinese Trump or Ryan Chen depending on what platform you're using (probably the world's best trump impersonator and even better he has never stepped foot in North America)
Jackson Lu Chongqing
Adventures of BennyHannah
I also cannot emphasize enough the importance of current primary sources, which you can plainly see on RedNote. Chinese on there are both notoriously hospitable, notoriously blunt, but well-educated because of their at times invasive curiosity. It's also worth following some expat accounts that run the gamut from brand new expats returning overseas Chinese:
Most of the creators I listed above
Roxycat
LisaLee6789
Shaquala King
Very black in China (and her comments section)
Buddha Wangwang
Ximeng Xim
朱盛国 (Neil)
Jian
ZY Chinese couple
Sabine Hui Chinese
City news service
Kenny wow
Dante Munoz
Yuri三语星球 (this is more comedy but she does it in three languages)
Expert Lee (focused on medical science and traditional Chinese medicine)
This is a pipe dream but I would very much like to see you arrange and moderate a discussion or debate between LegalEagle and 章律YOYO over governing systems
thank you for saying that. I used to watch LegalEagle’s videos often, and I think he’s really impressive. As for Yoyo, this is my first time coming across him, but after checking out some of her videos, I think he is also very good. You suggested that I could debate with them, maybe someday when I grow my channel more. Thank you very much. Personally, I’m a bit introverted, and that’s also why I speak out on public platforms; I want to change my personality. I’ll keep trying. One day it should be possible. One day it will be.
A debate between just those two would be both insightful and entertaining given their similar presentation styles. I feel like even in that debate they would be able to find a lot of common ground. You could just be the introverted moderator in the background watching it all play out, or get drunk and be an active participant.
This idea also came to me while I was a bit drunk and pondered what a conversation about governance between Hobbes, Locke, Confucius, and Mencius would look like. I arrived at the conclusion that Hobbes and Mencius would be laughing at Locke while Confucius cries over how badly humanity bastardized his Analects
You'll take a lot of heat for your analysis. My own knowledge of politico-economic systems is limited, so I'm listening; but how would a socialist system deal with smaller businesses providing, say, advertising services or light manufacturing? These are mostly privately owned, even family owned, and comprise a lot of the US economy.
I can only speak for current Chinese system, what China doing to small private businesses. I had bubble tea shop in China, I just declare loss the first year, and after that the tax man don’t really come after me as long as I declare “loss” . The government usually lenien to small mom pop shops, they go after big corps, they are fat and more juice there, also big corporations rely on government policies to thrive, they better listen to the government.
Hannah Arendt was forced to leave Germany because her ancestors were Jews. Otherwise, she was a ‘good German’, and she would have stayed if she could have done so safely. One good German who did stay was the Nazi Heidegger, with whom Arendt had an affair.
It seems that you are dismayed, as many Americans are, about the state of the American political economy. May I ask why a “grumpy Chinese guy” cares so much about our sinking ship? And works hard to warn us on the daily. I appreciate your thoughtful posts.
As someone born in the 80s in China, I grew up admiring America’s two-party democracy. It was one of the reasons I came here many years ago.
But growing older and understanding the system better, I began to see the hypocrisy.
Look at the social problems in the U.S. and even Canada. Gun violence, drug abuse, cultural excess. These problems have gone unsolved for decades. When I first arrived here 20 years ago, they were already serious. Today, nothing has changed.
Meanwhile, celebrities and politicians flaunt wealth every day. They call it freedom of speech, but in reality, it only makes divisions among people worse.
What frustrates me most is this: many Americans don’t see the fundamental issue. It is not just crime, or culture, or politics. At its core, it is a class issue. The gap between those who govern and those who are governed. In China, I was taught to look at every problem through class. In America, media and politicians work hard to hide that. They turn class conflict into social conflict. They make people fight each other instead of looking upward.
I want American prosperity. I hope wealth goes back into the people’s pockets. With China as the world’s largest manufacturer, both countries could benefit by working together. But America isn’t heading in that direction. What I see is an extreme end stage of capitalism, and that is dangerous.
Could you please elaborate more on the point about the common root between democracy and fascism?
This is a very good point-- but there is a variant that can avoid the democracy-fascism-democracy cycle.
This is "money out of politics" . Our legislators are owned and operated by big donors, a pseudo-democracy .
+OF COURSE+ when candidates can accept openly and secretly offered limitless money, they laws will ALWAYS be custom designed for the rich.
"Canada
Canada's system is often cited as a successful model, featuring strict contribution and spending limits, along with public subsidies."
Furthermore, there should be laws that prevent "delayed bribes"-- LIFETIME AUDITS FOR ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.
Very interesting analysis. However, the socialism in Romania, for example, was a fail. I think that China is special due to its long history experience , culture and lots of amazing personalities who had not only love for the country and its people but also a vision and the desire to change and develop the country and raise life quality..I cannot see any country in the western world to be able to take its path or support its people to work hard.
There is simply no love and desire for a reform to strengthen a sick society whose education fell under mediocrity in the US. Only speeches and make up.
The system is simply corrupt, bureaucratic and the government regulates things what are not its business, like where exactly a woman should give birth to a baby or mandate medical procedures based on the investment their members have made. The two parties and many members of Congres and Senate are a joke. And American people at this point do not really have much choice. Most are low paid and over taxed, in debts, sick and malnourished due to the cheap , junk food. I think that is way more than a class issue.
I share a similar story. Leaving China wasn't my choice but buy did I spend the subsequent 20 years disowning anything Chinese about myself. It didn't help that my parents hid behind Chinese culture and Confucianism to rationalize their abuse. As an adult though, I very much see that my parents disowned their own Chineseness far more than I ever could. This manifested itself as an embrace of American social conservatism, starting with it's racism and xenophobia, the typical "illegal aliens are criminals and black people commit the most violent crimes" bullshit. Ironically, my mom and I were illegal aliens for a few years.
I spent a time being conservative as well, taking the patriotism AKA nationalism angle, preferring rhetoric that nowadays would wind up on r/USDefaultism or r/ShitAmericansSay. Over time though I became more pragmatic. Based on nothing but data and the lived experiences of my wife and me, I eventually came to the conclusion that much of society's ills can be traced back to poverty. While my parents came here to claw themselves out of poverty and embrace American opportunity (they literally threatened to send me back to a shithole China as punishment whenever I acted up), I graduated college in a job market that hadn't recovered from the 2008 recession, watched my sister do the same 10 years later, and witnessed cost of living rise faster than wages. Thus began my so-called radicalization into socialism. After 2016 and 2024, I also started embracing my Chinese side. Again, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, China's comparatively heavy-handed and authoritarian approach to progress yielded results that are very hard to argue with, and they did it without mandating and exploitative work culture or establishing a global hegemony.
Contrast China's progress with India's progress and you see a tale of two systems. China lifted its populace out of poverty by rolling up its sleeves and spending all the money it made from manufacturing on public projects. India reduced its poverty from 25% to 5% by adjusting the criteria for poverty. China has a powerful government with a one-party monopoly on power, but socially is that same government that to an extent forces egalitarianism by doing things like taxing the rich, criminalizing lobbying, and bullying arrogant billionaires. India's freedom of speech, freedom of press, and freedom of religion led to a culturally enforced social hierarchy via the caste system, journalism that competes on pure sensationalism, and a sharp rise in Hindu nationalism that fueled Modi's Ascension. I'm sure you can see the parallels in the US as well.
All this has led me to take a more Hobbesian view of politics, which is more compatible with authoritarian socialism or post-Nazi Germany's comparatively authoritarian fortified democracy than liberal democracy. While I still very much advocate for Social Justice and other woke things, my focus has shifted from race to class. It doesn't help anyone to write off MAGA idiots as just racists and idiots. Their poverty drove them to do the unfortunately human thing of blaming external factors like other races and immigrants. That same poverty also cut off their access to education that could have taught them to think more critically. In that sense, they became victims of American freedom, and now stand to benefit from a more paternalistic State that by definition is the authoritarian socialism that the Cold War dismantled. This authoritarian State could have criminalized lobbying by special interest groups and billionaires, suppressed their propaganda, regulated religion to prevent the rise of religious extremism, and enforced censorship of hate speech and misinformation in favor of mandating and funding public education. Instead, we're watching our freedoms get dismantled by billionaires, lobbyists, and religious extremists, who benefited from and then abused those very freedoms to consolidate wealth and power. To quote Star Wars democracy dies with thunderous applause. It happened with Hitler, it happened with Orban, now it's happening with Trump. And while I'm no fan of Xi or totalitarianism, he is supported by a comparatively authoritarian technocratic system that effectively makes it illegal to be a rich powerful totalitarian asshole dumbass. That same system also prevents the populace from spiraling into uninformed and misinformed idiots.
From my perspective, just because it's private citizens and private companies committing atrocities, it doesn't make them any less atrocious. As a matter of fact, it's arguably worse because the government has plausible deniability, and restricted its own ability to prosecute and punish such atrocities. An authoritarian government becomes more of a devil you know. Chinese understand this extremely well. They had to deal with devil you know versus devil you don't know multiple times across their millennia of history, as well as multiple times in a single century, which is why even in longitudinal anonymized studies, approval for the one-party system remains high across all demographics. At this point I'm interpreting those numbers less as self-censorship and brainwashing, and more as legitimate support for a Hobbesian social contract approach to a a Confucian relationship between people and government. Cynically, even the most radical dissidents prefer that their enemy has an obvious uniform. And this gets to the root of the post: We need to be fighting a class war, not a culture war.
One of the reasons for people like me living overseas in North America since the age of 19 is that it gave us a different perspective. I’m really glad to see many American-born Chinese and Canadian-born Chinese who came to North America at a young age now starting to embrace their heritage. It’s fine to be proud of whichever passport you hold, but it’s just as important to be proud of your heritage, because at the end of the day, that is your root. I agree with many of your points here, and I truly appreciate you commenting like this. Thank you Sam
I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Though I’m far from being an expert, I do consider myself a socialist. But I’m trying to untangle in my mind the bullshit I’ve heard and read about China my whole life. From your perspective, authoritarianism seems totally logical under socialism. That’s something I’d never considered. You’ve given me a lot to think about. What would you and @neilzhu say about the exploitation of Chinese workers in sweatshops I’ve heard about for so long? And supposedly there’s a rural China that’s poorer than any American can imagine. And what about the censorship of ideas from the outside world? I genuinely don’t know what to think anymore and am eager to learn a different perspective.
First of all, thank you for reading and watching our articles and videos. The Chinese system runs on what’s called socialism with Chinese characteristics, which basically means whatever works for China works for China, and it must benefit the people. The core principle of the Communist Party is to serve the people. Since 1949, that slogan has always been at the center, and people expect the Party to honor it.
Secondly, about the sweatshop issue: today, China has very strict labor laws, and sweatshops are not allowed. Child labor is also strictly forbidden. If anyone hires child workers, the company and its leaders are finished, jail time, no question. What people call “sweatshops” mostly refers to things that happened 20, 30, even 40 years ago, when rural adults left for the cities for works and some kids were left behind. A few people took advantage of them. But that was a brief, temporary phenomenon. Today, all of that has been eliminated. Think about it, why would modern China need child labor or cheap, unsafe labor? It’s not efficient. Many factories now are automated, and the idea of “sweatshops” is long gone. What still pops up in Western media are isolated cases, blown out of proportion.
As for censorship, I see it more as a language barrier. Many of you probably haven’t spent time on Chinese internet platforms. On Weibo and other networks, people criticize the government constantly. There are always different viewpoints and channels to solve problems. The Chinese mindset is more programmatic: if you have a problem with the government, you find the right channel and resolve it, instead of just endlessly ranting online.
Regarding the “Great Firewall,” many Chinese people use VPNs, and through them people access Twitter (now X), YouTube, and even here. So outside information is not as blocked as people imagine. In fact, Chinese internet has been slowly opening up more and more, and I personally hope it continues, because if it does, I’ll have an even bigger audience here.
I hope this clears up some of your questions. If you’d like to continue the discussion, feel free to drop a comment.
Thanks so much. This is extremely helpful to know. Since I started watching your videos and reading your work, a lot of the propaganda I'd been fed in the US has quickly dissolved, and I see it for what it is.
Frankly, I'm so tired of the misinformation that has spread like wildfire here in the US in the last 10 years. My views on freedom of speech are evolving and changing because when algorithms and corporations make wannabe dictators, Christian nationalists, pseudoscientists, and billionaires the loudest voices, free speech is essentially meaningless in this country.
I'll take a different angle that can be summarized as this: despite strict laws, enforcement is difficult or ignored. Pragmatically, oftentimes enforcement is just not worth it.
China has a list of government approved VPNs that provide access to the blocked apps like Meta and Google, but even when private citizens use unapproved VPNs, nobody reports it, and authorities turn a blind eye. It's just not feasible to enforce in this case. Even the best AI of today cannot monitor and scrutinize every data packet that is transmitted. Foreigners are also allowed to use basically any VPN in China, much to the open consternation of Chinese (you should see what they used to say about Eileen Gu whenever she made an Instagram post from China).
The sweatshop issue is a bit fuzzy. Look up any video about Shein Village and even Chinese will openly discuss bad labor practices and a complex network of subcontractors very much designed to cover the asses of management and optimize raw output at the expense of workers' rights, that are then amplified by involution culture. In this case though, Chinese still see heavy-handed government intervention and socialism as the most viable solution. Hell, even Tiananmen Square (8964) was a demand for e return to a more pure form of socialism. While officially it was a violent disruption of public order, the spirit is not lost among party officials, and I'm moderately confident that those very same dissidents will also be retconned as National Martyrs in the future.
On the flip side, involution culture is also what keeps children away from working. The competitiveness of the college entrance exam incentivizes parents to keep their children in schools and supplemental classes as much as possible. Therefore, child labor is not only extremely illegal and morally repugnant but also pragmatically a massive waste of time. This culture can be even more severe in poor rural China because the college entrance exam is seen as the only way out of poverty.
It's also important to note though that sometimes the lack of proper labor practices is also perpetuated by the workers themselves. One of the best examples that I can provide is at welding shops, where older workers often refuse the inconvenience of wearing protective gear, and smoke cigarettes on the job next to tanks of combustible material. They won't listen to management, especially if management is younger, and in general, they're a bunch of stubborn assholes stuck in their ways.
As for censorship, it's something that Chinese openly acknowledge, and probably highlights one of the biggest polarities between Chinese and Western values. After so much violence perpetrated by both foreign and domestic forces, as well as the carnivorous capitalism of the Deng era, most Chinese value the safety to consistently go home to see their families more than the freedom to call Xi Jinping Winnie the Pooh. As long as you don't criticize party officials or the party itself, criticizing policy is fair game. American libertarian dumbshits also love to misquote Ben Franklin. In all official biographies he never actually said "those wishing to trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security". Aka they are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps the most colloquial way I can capture the Chinese sentiment around Freedom and security is a Chinese user who once told me that she would rather live in a country where she is more afraid of ghosts than people. And yes, this also accounts for the man vs bear discussion.
While we interpret 80% Chinese approval of the government as brainwashing and self-censorship, it's hard to argue with the rapid material gains, social stability, and social mobilization that this so-called brainwashing has provided. America had to go to war multiple times for women and minorities to join the workforce en masse. China on the other hand, forcefully demands it of them 🙃 And speaking of women, China has much better maternity leave laws than we do, though the unintended consequence is gender discrimination in hiring then women reacting to that by electing not to have kids.
In addition to the criticism on social media that Neil mentioned, many cities have official civic engagement apps, which according to most Chinese I talk to, are rife with extremely creative, vicious, and entertaining criticisms. I believe them, because Chinese culture has had five millennia to evolve the art of humulation. Considering the sheer population of Chinese cities, Mayors wield a massive amount of influence and power. It's also open season for them on the city apps. But even unofficially Chinese still openly gripe about the government. This happens more in spoken conversation than on any written platforms. Again pragmatically, censoring these conversations is just not worth it.
As for foreign sources getting censored, it is understandably reflexive. After China's century of humiliation, repeated incursions and exploitation by foreign powers (including after joining the WTO), as well as CIA-funded propaganda and misinformation machines cosplaying as NGOs, it's no surprise that China wants to build itself on its own terms. Just imagine a team of social workers and self-described life coaches constantly breathing down your neck and giving you unsolicited advice they read in a textbook and even financially and corporally punishing you while making no real effort to understand where you came from. Now amplify this to 1.4 billion people many of whom are still-living survivors. Americans already have a hard time trusting authoritative sources. China's resistance and censorship against foreign influence is not even a toddler tantrum compared to how the US would have reacted where the circumstances reversed. And if this seems like an overcorrection, we literally shot up the British military over taxes 😂
Hope this helps!
This is extremely helpful! I appreciate you and Neil so much. Americans need to learn this stuff. Are there media sources or books or anything else either of you could recommend I read about Chinese history, society, and/or politics - something not tainted by Western propaganda? If you can think of a couple off the top of your head, I would greatly appreciate it.
Iris Chang (RIP) is a good start. If you really want to throw yourself into the deep end, the Analects of Confucius. I also listen to the Sinica podcast, available on your platform of choice, including Substack. While they are hosted by pro-democratic elements, their content is usually academically rigorous and a good secondary source to cite, especially if you're persuading or debating a China skeptic because they are completely independent from any government, as are their guests.
For a less political take on Chinese history, https://teacup.media/chinahistorypodcast
Now get yourself ready. I'm about to help you flood your algorithm.
On Western platforms there are a few Chinese and non-chinese creators that I follow. Search both they're short form and their long form content:
Little Chinese everywhere
Mike okay
Blondie in China
Aiden Qiu
Dr Candise Lin
Explore with Mia
Chinese with Jessie
Max Chernov
Cyrus Janssen
Somenuance
That Evan guy
Pawn man
Otwd
1M views
秋秋Lareina
Katherine's journey to the east
Aleese Lightyear
Marissa in China
Yuna Ou
Ychina
Sam pepper (He's got a bad rap for being a public nuisance but his China content is good)
For some more light-hearted content:
Trump by Ryan or Chinese Trump or Ryan Chen depending on what platform you're using (probably the world's best trump impersonator and even better he has never stepped foot in North America)
Jackson Lu Chongqing
Adventures of BennyHannah
I also cannot emphasize enough the importance of current primary sources, which you can plainly see on RedNote. Chinese on there are both notoriously hospitable, notoriously blunt, but well-educated because of their at times invasive curiosity. It's also worth following some expat accounts that run the gamut from brand new expats returning overseas Chinese:
Most of the creators I listed above
Roxycat
LisaLee6789
Shaquala King
Very black in China (and her comments section)
Buddha Wangwang
Ximeng Xim
朱盛国 (Neil)
Jian
ZY Chinese couple
Sabine Hui Chinese
City news service
Kenny wow
Dante Munoz
Yuri三语星球 (this is more comedy but she does it in three languages)
Expert Lee (focused on medical science and traditional Chinese medicine)
Travis的旅行
瑞华Josh
Hannia~晗宁
Excellent! Thank you so much!
This is a pipe dream but I would very much like to see you arrange and moderate a discussion or debate between LegalEagle and 章律YOYO over governing systems
thank you for saying that. I used to watch LegalEagle’s videos often, and I think he’s really impressive. As for Yoyo, this is my first time coming across him, but after checking out some of her videos, I think he is also very good. You suggested that I could debate with them, maybe someday when I grow my channel more. Thank you very much. Personally, I’m a bit introverted, and that’s also why I speak out on public platforms; I want to change my personality. I’ll keep trying. One day it should be possible. One day it will be.
PS, I am pretty talkative when drunk.
A debate between just those two would be both insightful and entertaining given their similar presentation styles. I feel like even in that debate they would be able to find a lot of common ground. You could just be the introverted moderator in the background watching it all play out, or get drunk and be an active participant.
This idea also came to me while I was a bit drunk and pondered what a conversation about governance between Hobbes, Locke, Confucius, and Mencius would look like. I arrived at the conclusion that Hobbes and Mencius would be laughing at Locke while Confucius cries over how badly humanity bastardized his Analects
You'll take a lot of heat for your analysis. My own knowledge of politico-economic systems is limited, so I'm listening; but how would a socialist system deal with smaller businesses providing, say, advertising services or light manufacturing? These are mostly privately owned, even family owned, and comprise a lot of the US economy.
Is there a third way?
I can only speak for current Chinese system, what China doing to small private businesses. I had bubble tea shop in China, I just declare loss the first year, and after that the tax man don’t really come after me as long as I declare “loss” . The government usually lenien to small mom pop shops, they go after big corps, they are fat and more juice there, also big corporations rely on government policies to thrive, they better listen to the government.
Hannah Arendt was forced to leave Germany because her ancestors were Jews. Otherwise, she was a ‘good German’, and she would have stayed if she could have done so safely. One good German who did stay was the Nazi Heidegger, with whom Arendt had an affair.
Very interesting, thanks bring this up. Always good to learn something here.
It seems that you are dismayed, as many Americans are, about the state of the American political economy. May I ask why a “grumpy Chinese guy” cares so much about our sinking ship? And works hard to warn us on the daily. I appreciate your thoughtful posts.
As someone born in the 80s in China, I grew up admiring America’s two-party democracy. It was one of the reasons I came here many years ago.
But growing older and understanding the system better, I began to see the hypocrisy.
Look at the social problems in the U.S. and even Canada. Gun violence, drug abuse, cultural excess. These problems have gone unsolved for decades. When I first arrived here 20 years ago, they were already serious. Today, nothing has changed.
Meanwhile, celebrities and politicians flaunt wealth every day. They call it freedom of speech, but in reality, it only makes divisions among people worse.
What frustrates me most is this: many Americans don’t see the fundamental issue. It is not just crime, or culture, or politics. At its core, it is a class issue. The gap between those who govern and those who are governed. In China, I was taught to look at every problem through class. In America, media and politicians work hard to hide that. They turn class conflict into social conflict. They make people fight each other instead of looking upward.
I want American prosperity. I hope wealth goes back into the people’s pockets. With China as the world’s largest manufacturer, both countries could benefit by working together. But America isn’t heading in that direction. What I see is an extreme end stage of capitalism, and that is dangerous.
That’s why I’m frustrated.